Post #274
[Private journal entry written on Thursday, December 3, 2009 - 9pm]
This evening, I attended a business-networking event. I ran into Mark (therapist #1) – this is pretty common occurrence as we live in a smaller town and we both are business owners.
He was standing with a small circle of people, so I joined the circle. Upon joining the group, I discovered that the conversation was focused on the dating opportunities available to single people in our rural community . . . or, maybe more accurately, the shortage of dating opportunities.
Backyard by Martin Chen
When a couple of single ladies in the group turned to me and asked me about my experience, I made a wisecrack that dating is not a priority for me . . . but that Mark had been trying to talk me into giving it a try.
My comment was lighthearted; but, it actually carried a heavy truth. When I was in therapy with Mark, one of the big issues we worked on was shifting my negative attitude towards men and dating.
Anyway, now that I’m home, I find myself wanting to restart therapy with Mark. I need help with the emotions, bodily sensations and memories that have been coming up for me. And, tonight, I felt so connected with Mark. I have consistently wanted to go back to him over the past weeks/months.
I think it is time to make that happen. For better or for worse, it is time to make that happen. I find myself constantly wondering what would happen if I were to go back – if I could find resolution to what happened earlier, if we could actually work through the conflict and move onto bigger and better issues, or if I will discover that he really is an insensitive, bullheaded therapist who isn’t able to help me because of his own stuff.
I need to know which is the case. I need to know where he ends and I begin in our relationship – right now, I don’t know the answer to that – I am too enmeshed with him (and with men in general) to know the answer. I need to figure this out – for my own healing and sanity.
On the other hand, I have been struggling with how to deal with the conflict that brought our therapy to a premature end more than a year ago. I keep reviewing “what happened” so I might figure out where it all went wrong . . .
At the very beginning of my therapy with Mark (February 2008), we agreed that my therapy would be “secular” as opposed to Bible-based. I made a very big deal about it.
In March, Mark asked me to document my spiritual journey in writing – which I did, and it turned out to be a huge document. I was nervous about handing it over to him because I was afraid he would use it to argue the fallacies he perceived to be in my belief system.
There was a minor ruckus in that direction, but we got things sorted out. I knew he thought my belief system was bogus, but he kept his comments about it pretty much to himself.
However, over time, he started inserting his beliefs into our sessions – a little bit at first, then more and more as time passed. I asked him to stop. But, he wouldn’t.
It became serious enough that I set a very clear boundary with him – I put into writing that he was not to bring his religious beliefs into my therapy. He promised he wouldn’t do it again.
Then, during a session last October, he started talking about his beliefs again during my session. He then continued sharing them with me for an additional hour after the session time. I didn’t fight back because I was done fighting.
I knew that, if I resisted, it would turn into a dramatic argument that would only result in more hurt feelings. So, I just listened – I knew it was going to be our last time to meet for therapy because him breaking his promise was a deal-breaker for me.
In January of this year, I met with him for coffee. During that conversation, I asked him why he had not kept his promise. He said he did what he felt was best for me.
So, now, I’m torn between knowing his behavior was unacceptable and wanting to reconnect with him. I know we will have to deal with this religion issue. I wish I knew how.
Maybe I’ll figure it out tonight in my sleep.
Hi Marie! I read your note about comments so I thought I’d drop my thoughts here…
First – how courageous of you to stand up for yourself when this happened. Setting boundaries for me has been a challenge; any sign of conflict could send me into a near state of shock with physical shaking and panic. So kudos to you for being able to set – and keep – the boundary you set.
And, I think it’s more common than what we see in how survivors of especially childhood issues feel those mixed emotions of ambivalence toward those who don’t always treat us with the respect we deserve. This was how I kept finding myself in some unhealthy relationships as I kept giving chance after chance, thinking that if I did this, or that then maybe it would work out. That childlike “magical thinking” where I felt as though I could make someone love me if I was “good enough” or did it “right enough”…and it never was either of those…always ending badly.
And last – I’ve learned from experience that anytime someone else makes decisions for me that I am giving up my power and they are in effect telling me that they know best and are making a decision for me that I could – and should – be making for myself. This for me has become my number one indicator of an imbalance of power in a relationship whether with a provider of services or in a personal relationship. In turn – this reinforced the unconscious belief that I needed others to decide what was best and to tell me what to do. Dependence instead of independence.
I don’t know if any of this is applicable for you so “take what you want and leave the rest” :)
Susan
By: Susan on March 22, 2010
at 4:34 pm
Hi, Susan -
Thank you for the kudos . . . it is very nice to get credit when credit is due!!
What you have written really rings true for me . . . that it is not always easy to know when a relationship has become unhealthy.
What I keep running into is that I recreate this very same scenario time after time . . . and I never have found that elusive healthy relationship (of any kind) with a man.
So, I have come to the conclusion that this pattern is something I’m creating either by choosing poorly or by conducting myself in a less-than-healthy way while in relationships that could be healthy.
By going back into this relationship, I felt I had a good chance of figuring it out . . . I mean, a therapist is “obligated” to stick around through thick and thin and is supposed to have insight into this kind of stuff . . . if he can’t help me, who can?
So . . . yes, I agree with what you have written . . . and, on the other hand, my gut was telling me I had to go back into the therapeutic relationship in order to make sense of what happened with Mark previously — and to make sense of what keeps happening with men.
Can you see the logic behind my thinking?
- Marie
By: Marie on March 22, 2010
at 6:48 pm
One of my therapists during my INtense trauma therapy didnt accept a no from me. I said it again and I moved backwards till a wall stopped me. I turned around and went to the head doctor asking for a different therapist. A therapsit is obliged to listen to you and his is obliged to do his best. However what the best is for you has to be agreed by both of you. Its like a therapy contract. You made clear you want a secular therapy. I violated that boundary more than once. That isnt acceptable. You see that you are enmeshed with him. I think it is honorable that you wanna try to work it out with him. Please dont get me wrong I decided on a very provoking kind of therapy with someone I had transfered my issue upon. Still he has to accept boundaries or it had consequencs. It was hard walking away from him. Boundaries, to stick to them and execute consequences isnt that easy. Actually rather a nightmare for me despite all exercises and practice. Often wondering if I should go back to make it up, wondering if I could work it through. I got taught that a I have to feel secure and trusting in a relation with my therapist. I learned it is supposed to be a relation of healing. I feel that this therapist would not meet this requirements.
For myself I would prefer to learn what keeps me from men in a secure and trusting relation where I do not have to watch out why and how often my therapist is violating my boundaries. When I had changed my therapist I opened to the new one and it was like a damm was broken. I worked with him for the last few weeks remaining during my therapy and my issue of boundaries and the way I acted with men hs changed ever since. I am grateful beyond measure. It was and still is a healing relation. I wish you to do the best for yu, not the best for Mike. I am thinking of you and keep you in my thoughts.
By: Paula on March 23, 2010
at 2:33 am
Hi, Paula -
Wow! It sounds like you really went through a lot with your first therapist . . . I’m glad you were able to identify the problem and do something about it quickly!
I appreciate the hope you give me by sharing that you did find a therapist who respected you and provided a safe place for you to process stuff.
Great input! Thank you!
- Marie
By: Marie on March 24, 2010
at 11:42 am
I’ll be very interested to see how this turns out. I really respect and admire your determination to sort out transference issues from boundary issues — but I would also say that presenting you repeatedly with religious dogma is a boundary violation, and if he can’t respect that, the therapy relationship is unlikely to be healthy. For similar reasons, I refuse to stay with any therapist who believes in meds … because the foundation of how they think healing can occur is diametrically opposed to mine. It took me a while to find a therapist who is a good match for me, but it was worthwhile … one of the benefits to a less-than-ideal experience is in learning how to “interview” therapists. I now run from Christians and meds-pushers. :-) Both of those things are good matches for lots of clients, but both are very bad for me personally.
By: davidrochester on March 23, 2010
at 11:40 am
Hey, David -
I actually have never seen it clearly as a process to sort out transference issues from boundary issues . . . but, now that you say that, I can see that is exactly what I was (and still am, to some extent) doing!
I struggle with knowing if I really do know what is best for me in the therapeutic process . . . maybe I’m stuck in destructive patterns because I’m stuck doing what I always do . . . maybe I do need to just quit fighting and do what the therapist tells me to do . . . but, sometimes I can clearly see that is not the case.
This is rather tough stuff to figure out . . .
I sure learn a lot from what you write . . . thank you!
- Marie
By: Marie on March 24, 2010
at 11:47 am
Hi Marie, I’ll be interested to hear how this goes. I guess the end of the therapy is the first topic of doing therapy again with Mark.
I’m wondering if you are clear what you want from re-starting with Mark? What is getting in the way of resolution? You are clear that you stopped because he didn’t stick to agreements – do you want the warmth that he was able to provide (perhaps rare in your relationships with men)? I hope you have some resolution and clarity.
It seems like a huge step to take to recommence therapy, I hope it went well, and am looking forward to hearing about it.
By: Evan on March 23, 2010
at 5:20 pm
Hey, Evan -
So, to answer your question . . . no, I was not clear what I wanted from re-starting with Mark. The real reason I went back is because my gut said I needed to . . . and I kept looking for a logical reason to explain it to other people and to myself. But, in the end, the real reason is because my gut said I needed to “finish it” so I could have a sense of resolution about it.
LOL . . . great questions . . . even now, looking back after months have passed, I’m not sure I have solid answers yet.
- Marie
By: Marie on March 24, 2010
at 11:51 am
You wrote: “What you have written really rings true for me . . . that it is not always easy to know when a relationship has become unhealthy.”
You have already identified a main issue in identifying and differentiating a healthy relationship from a not so healthy one – a person who does not respect a boundary that you have set and does so repeatedly.
There is nothing we can do to work things out with those who have made it clear that they don’t value us, our thoughts, feelings and choices by intentionally violating a boundary that has been set. This is how we continue to find ourselves repeating the same unhealthy dance in relationships time and time again.
When we stop doing the dance and resetting limits over and over that have already been violated – and in cases like this where it is pretty much said “I get to choose what is good for you and your boundary has no bearing on me”…
When we stop doing this dance – we are able to identify and let go of these unhealthy situations and move into healthier relationships where we are valued and can put our energy into these more balanced relationships instead of trying to salvage or fix relationships that cause us such pain over and over.
It is a process to learn to identify the role we play in repeating this pattern in our adult lives but with practice I have learned to see these patterns and what I can and can’t change in my relationships.
Along with the issues of abandonment this was a difficult lesson to learn but not impossible.
Again…this may or may not be what you were looking for for feedback so I hope this is helpful…
By: Susan on March 24, 2010
at 9:17 am
Hey, Susan -
Wow . . . you write with great clarity and conviction!
I like how clearly you have laid out the issue here: ” . . . and in cases like this where it is pretty much said “I get to choose what is good for you and your boundary has no bearing on me.’” That is exactly what happened in our first round of therapy — and, I have never seen it spelled out so clearly before.
After reading what you have written, I can see what has been keeping me from seeing it that clearly: I am not certain my boundaries are reasonable.
I mean, for example, if I shared a house with someone who insisted I not sit on the furniture because I might get it dirty . . . well, I believe any reasonable person would say my housemate was being unreasonable and my desire to use the furniture was reasonable.
However, in the mind of my housemate, he or she probably has very good reason for that boundary. Who am I to say what is reasonable and what is unreasonable?
I am afraid I am that “unreasonable” housemate . . . and that fear comes from being told in every single relationship that I am being unreasonable with my boundaries . . . it is what Mark told me.
So, if every single person with whom I have a relationship tells me I’m being unreasonable in my boundary-setting, isn’t it reasonable to conclude that I am being unreasonable?
If I knew my boundaries were reasonable, it would be an easy choice for me. But, I don’t know that, and that is why I always have so much trouble with this stuff.
Does that make sense?
- Marie
By: Marie on March 24, 2010
at 12:00 pm
Yes; perfect sense, Marie. I have found that at anytime I am lacking confidence that this will keep me running in circles and doubting myself, turning to others to tell me what to do. Finding my own power after a lifetime of being defined by others was hard – but each day it gets easier:)
That is the conundrum for some of us who have survived childhood with less than a clear sense of who we are, where we start and stop and where others start and stop. We have a tendency to trust and believe others opinions about ourselves rather than learning to define who we are.
In my journey I have come to understand that whatever boundaries I have set for myself are just fine. If they are unreasonable – no one has the right to define that – except me.
And if I am changing or adjusting my limits out of fear of anothers reaction or response – then I am not truly being autonomous as I need anothers validation to be ok with my choices but am perhaps in another relationship that is unbalanced in power and control.
On the idea of your boundaries being unreasonable…if my boundaries are based more on trying to force you to comply with something that I am demanding, I am not setting a boundary as much as I am trying to force your compliance.
I have learned that boundaries are a negotiation more than a demand. In other words – you can ask me if it’s ok to buy furniture I won’t be able to sit on but if you buy it and then demand my compliance that is completely different. In that case then, the issue is not one of respect but of power and control and who will win or lose.
In a healthy relationship boundaries are discussed and negotiated up front or along the way. No one person gets to “make the rules” and just expect compliance.
As it was described to me: a boundary is when I set a limit and I let go of the outcome or of what you might chose to do with or about it. My boundaries are about what I will accept, not what I am trying to get you to do. And if you have set a limit then I respect it or ask if we can negotiate a different agreement. But there is no power struggle.
If we cannot come to an agreement on the furniture in your example – then you would be free to leave the living situation but not to attempt to bully or force me to change my boundary of no sitting on the furniture that I purchased. Boundaries are about what I will accept and what I will do if you disregard my limits – not about forcing you to do what I am demanding.
Again – I don’t know if I have communicated clearly what I am trying to say but I guess a summary might be that in healthy relationships I am free to have my own thoughts or opinions and the limits I have set are set once – perhaps negotiated along the way but not disrespected or blatantly disregarded.
In the past I accepted it when others defined me, told me what I thought was wrong etc. So – I can understand what you are saying about it being hard to know if your boundaries are reasonable with those who you go to for support telling you that they are not.
Not knowing your situation and specifics – I found it to be more helpful to ask to be shown how to recognize and set clear boundaries over arguing about past situations and simply being told I was being unreasonable.
By: Susan on March 25, 2010
at 2:47 pm
Hey, Susan -
I am really learning a lot from your input . . . you have given me so much to think about!
And, yes, your words are very applicable to my situation . . .
Thank you so much for sharing all your wisdom! I hope you continue adding your input in future posts!
- Marie
By: Marie on March 25, 2010
at 6:54 pm
Thank you Marie. I’m sure I’ll drop by again and I’m glad you found something useful in my notes;)
By: Susan on March 26, 2010
at 4:23 pm